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Mog 416 With 353 Engine Questions

Dawie Louw

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#1
I am about to buy a soft top 416 of 1978 vintage, with a 353.907 engine. Mechanically I am only self-trained, not qualified. Some basic questions:

I presume the 416 has 24 volt electrics. What size 12 Volt batteries are recommended? What Amp/hr rating? I am fimiliar with the Exide 352 in the G.

The vehicle was deregistered in 2011 and it is not known when last the engine ran. I intend flushing the fuel system, replace the filters, change the engine oil and filter, turn the engine by hand - if I can, before any attempt at starting. Must I first squirt oil into the combustion chambers (how best is that done?) or what would you recommend I do to minimise possible damage? What about the turbo? Should I at least try to establish it it spins freely before any start-up?

I hardly see any reference to the 353 engine. Is it much different to the 352 and what must I look out for?

Any help, advice and encouragement is appreciated.

Dawie
 

paulventer

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#2
Hi Dawie

A few quick answers:
416 mogs came in both 24V and 12V versions. Military applications had 24V, while civilian applications had 12V. All ex Buffels are 24V

Battery size - not sure what the factory recommended size is. I'll have to check the technical databook to see if they cover battery sizes. On my current 12V mog I have a single 120ah battery, while on my previous mog (24V ex Buffel) I had two 70ah batteries iirc. Neither mog had any issues with starting. The 24V starters seem to do a bit better when temps are well below freezing.

If you plan to register the vehicle - make sure the seller sorts out all license fees that are in arrears. My current mog was also deregistered and the previous owner had to pay license fees from date of deregistration to get it back on the road. Can add up to quite an amount on a mog!

The 353 engine is a variant of the 352. I would take a wild guess to say your engine number on the block will be a 352... number - number is normally stamped on the passenger side of the block, just below the tappet cover towards the rear of the engine. Afaik the 353 designation is simply a sales code, while the physical engine still has a 352 engine number. I can be wrong on this though.

If the mog has a turbo it was retrofitted. 416 mogs did not come from the factory with turbos.

With regards to recommissioning the vehicle - I would do all you have suggested above. Then when all is ready, turn the engine with the starter motor, but leave the fuel lever (hand throttle) in the off position until you can see movement on the oil pressure gauge. This way you know you have oil in all the right places before you start the engine.

As a matter of interest - I've attached Merc's recommended procedures for decomissioning and recomissioning mogs for long term storage. This guide is written for more modern mogs, so just ignore the references to electronics, but the rest is still valid. Guide for recomissioning starts on page 5.

Before driving the mog it will also be a good idea to replace all the transmission oils - gearbox, diffs and all 4 portal axles. The gearbox wants GL4 oil, while the diffs and portals can use either GL4 or GL5 oil - 80W90 is the factory spec. Collect the old oil in transparent containers and check for signs of water contamination and/or rust. If significant quantities of either are present you may be due for bearing replacement in the near future.

Lastly - have fun. Mog ownership can be daunting at times, but these are simple and well designed beasts. They can be quite addictive... :)

Cheers
Paul
 

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paulventer

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#3
Ps - I see you're also in Joburg. Shout if you need advice, help, or simply need to check something on another mog.

I also have the full workshop manual for the mog (2 lever arch files). Its in German, but the pictures tells the story of how things fit together.
 

Dawie Louw

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#4
Paul, MANY, MANY thanks for your comprehensive (early Monday morning) response. It is appreciated. Thank you also for the attachment and the offer of access to the manuals and your help. I have managed to download a June 1976 Instruction Manual for the 416 but it only goes to page 27.

The vehicle was sold on an auction last week and I expect delivery within the next few days. There is a heap of steel to be moved before the roll-back can get to the Mog. Once at my place I will do a good inspection and then probably have many more questions. As the eternal optimist (as all of us are) I am holding thumbs that there are not too many missing items or serious isssues.

The Certificate of Deregistration is dated 22 December 2011. I would have assumed that there are no licence fees due whilst deregistered and being a liquidated company as owner, I doubt it if the authorities can claim backdated license fees. But nowadays anything is possible.

It is most probably an ex-military vehicle as instructions on the dash are in both Afrikaans and English and even on the tyre it reads "10 Laag" in Afrikaans.

Date of first liability is 1 Jan 1978 which then most probably, is the date it first entered Sivvy life.

Watch this space for many more questions!
 

paulventer

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#8
Nice find!

My guess from the pics - original soft top model with the spare wheel bracket on drivers side below the cab. Drum brakes. She looks to be fairly original, which is nice. She does need a bit of work though...

I can see why you're looking for a sand blaster ;-)

I don't have any recommendations for a sandblaster, but I'm sure there will be a G owner who has some experience in this regard.

It may be worth speaking to Ferdi at Mogdoc - he has restored several mogs and does good work (based in Harties). He's also a good person to know when you start the restoration as he's been involved with mogs for ages. He's helped most of us Gauteng mog owners at some point during our mog ownership...
 

Dawie Louw

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#9
Sandblasting on a G? Never!

Just kidding. There was a good blaster off Eloff Street Extension, Johannesburg Sandblasting whom I have used for (small) tractor parts. I understand the unions started giving him hassles and he summarly closed the business and retired to the coast. I have a name, Marwal Powder at 58 Webber street but have no idea about quality.

Thanks for recommending Ferdi, Mogster has already mentioned him. Being retired I have time but not al the technical know-how. My plan is to do the initial evaluation, firstly of all the mechanical units and take it from there.
 

Andrew

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#10
Hi Dawie,

TRD sandblasting at Hornsnek PTA can even blast flat body panels without warping them. I have a number of good experiences with them. Talk to Thinus.
 

Dawie Louw

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#11
Thanks Andrew. I will keep them in mind. With my OLdsheimers I have a system where every "project" becomes a spreadsheet with sub-sheets for basic vehicle info, contacts, part numbers, costs, "what to do next", etc.

I believe its an art to blast body panels without warping. I have read about soda blasting etc.
 

paulventer

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#12
Hi Dawie

Back to your original question re the 353.907 engine.

Here's the engine overview from the Unimog technical databook:
2016-07-06 09.53.40.jpg


As you can see the 353.907 is a sales designation of a type of OM352 engine. In standard form rated at 92kw (there are also 62kw, 81kw and 96kw normally aspirated OM352's).
 

paulventer

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#14
Yes - my current mog was deregistered by the previous owner and then re-registered before I bought it.

Afaik - as long as it was on the Natis system one can re-register the vehicle.
 

Dawie Louw

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#15
Thanks Paul for the Data Sheet. So many things keeping me away from Project M.

I have managed to locate the engine platee on top of the tappet cover and you were right, it is inherently a 352 see photo attached.

Also my understanding that once on Natis it will not be a problem. The only exclusion I think will be if it was written off as Code 4. Only allowed to be sold as spares.
 

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paulventer

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...
I have managed to locate the engine platee on top of the tappet cover and you were right, it is inherently a 352 see photo attached.
...
Nice - a genuine MB engine, not an ADE engine. Not that there's anything wrong with ADE engines, the purist in me just prefers German things to come from Germany ;-)

There should be another plate on the engine block very well hidden behind the injector pump (I was only able to see mine by squeezing my phone in there and taking random pics till I had a pic on which I could read the number). When you have time it may be a good idea to confirm that the two plates have the same number on them (and that this is the number on the NATIS documents) - for your own peace of mind and in case you get an over eager inspection officer when you get around to registering the vehicle.
 

Dawie Louw

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#17
Thanks. I will try to find the number on the engine block. The engine out of Stuttgard and the vehicle out of Gaggenau.

I have now found three overpainted plates in the engine bay, in front of the passenger's footwell. The first, what must be the builder's plate, has a number that is unfortunately NOT the same as the VIN on the registration certificate. It has the number 416 162 10 018592 Unimog 416. The VIN on the registration certificate reads 41616310017246. Is there any other place where the Chassis number on VIN is stamped on the vehicle? If not, I can see trouble at re-registration time.

What is the difference between a 416.162 and a 416.163?

The second is another plain aluminium plate with the number KTR 82167 BV. Is this perhaps a Defence Force Number and any idea what it means?

The third plate, bolted on, not riveted, next to the factory plate, does not seem to hold any information.
 

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Dawie Louw

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#18
Another bit of luck: Neither the starter nor the altenator has any indication of voltage. At least not where I can see it. Fortunately, on the indicator flasher unit (made in the USA) it clearly states: 24 Volt. Is there any other place where I can check to confirm that I must install two 12V batteries?

The starter has two main terminals. I have found the severed battery cable still attached to the one terminal. The other terminal is not used. The only wiring diagram I have access to is not clear.
 

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paulventer

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#19
...
I have now found three overpainted plates in the engine bay, in front of the passenger's footwell. The first, what must be the builder's plate, has a number that is unfortunately NOT the same as the VIN on the registration certificate. It has the number 416 162 10 018592 Unimog 416. The VIN on the registration certificate reads 41616310017246. Is there any other place where the Chassis number on VIN is stamped on the vehicle? If not, I can see trouble at re-registration time.

What is the difference between a 416.162 and a 416.163?

The second is another plain aluminium plate with the number KTR 82167 BV. Is this perhaps a Defence Force Number and any idea what it means?
...
The chassis number is normally stamped on the chassis behind the right rear wheel.

Difference between 416.162 and 416.163 - 416.162 is a soft top and 416.163 is a hard top. Mechanically they're pretty much the same - both had the 125hp 353.907 engine.

It sounds like your mog might have had a cab replacement at some point in its life. I suspect they didn't transfer the builders plate from the old cab to the new.
 

paulventer

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#20
Sometimes VIN number is also stamped on chassis behind right front wheel.

If you're looking in this area, many of the parts/brackets have cast in part numbers - don't confuse these with the VIN number.

Example of where the VIN would be:

416 vin number.jpg